About Torsunov's lectures. My husband let me read them, but he made a mistake and downloaded me a lecture about the responsibilities of a husband (sorry, maybe I’m saying the title of the lecture incorrectly). I wanted to let you hear about the responsibilities of a wife. I listened and had a bunch of questions for my husband. After all, there was a big difference between what I heard and saw at home. The short answer was that I don’t want to change. I didn’t understand how a person listening to all this could continue to drink even in front of his son. I don’t understand how it is with the child, instead of going for a walk, he sits with him in front of the TV and plays computer games for 4, 5 hours. How can you demand that a person change if he himself does not want to change? Maybe, of course, I misunderstood something in the lectures. On the contrary, I would be happy if a person followed what he reads. My father also read these lectures; he, too, would not mind if his son-in-law took on the role of husband and father. This is how grandfather has to do it. They call themselves the public organization 'Men of Steel'. This is just my opinion. By the age of 30, a person has questions about the meaning of life. I started looking for answers. And this was applied to this fertile soil. I don’t think that Torsunov or the Vedas recommend taking out loans for equipment, tying Christmas trees to the child’s wrists (instead of medicines) when the child has a temperature of 39 for five days. Calling everyone vegetables and subhumans. Each person interprets the information somewhat in his own way, but only so much. I am a family man and if only things had been done as planned. I would follow him. But outright nonsense. Sit down and read, don’t work, play computer games. To my questions, what should a family eat? They told me that I lived on buckwheat for a week. This is simply incredible. My husband has a trait: he quickly gets excited about some idea, tries, and if it doesn’t work out, he gives up everything. I realized that all this applies to family. We got married when he was 22 years old and I was 25. He was under the supervision of his parents and, as I now understand, he just had to escape from observation. And he tried the role of responsibility to the family that we created, but it turned out to be difficult. I don’t relieve myself of any responsibility, because both are involved in the relationship. Therefore, I also bear the burden for the whole situation. but in my opinion, we must love each other and everything can be overcome. And I came to a disappointing conclusion for myself. It’s just that I, and then my son, were just a flash in his life. And he doesn't love anyone. He destroys everything around him and his values are different now. Although for whom it depends. He believes that he is developing. But we, this is the second matter. The child should not suffer.
Everything is clear here, the person said one thing, but did something else, apparently he didn’t have enough strength... Or he was deceiving himself, wishful thinking.
According to Torsunov, you should now try with all your might to get him out of this with the right behavior and mood, and try to save the family.
I don’t know whether you have the strength and desire to do this... But I believe that in this situation it would be difficult and difficult for everyone.
It’s easier to leave and run away... It might even be right, especially considering the world we live in... At least they will understand and support you...
A resident of the village of Novosadovoye in the Belgorod region, former test pilot Eduard Sergeevich Kuznetsov, his wife became an adherent of the Jehovah's Witnesses Church 15 years ago. At that time, the family lived in Kharkov, where there are a lot of similar organizations. The woman was brought to the Jehovah's Witnesses by her own sister.
Lyudmila Kuznetsova’s sister spoke enthusiastically about the pastors’ sermons and their high moral qualities and very often told her relative that her life had acquired a new meaning. She tried to do all this while her sister’s husband was not at home. Lyudmila, apparently, suffered from a lack of communication with her husband, who spent a lot of time at work, and reached out to her sister and her fellow believers
Having become members of the sect, the sisters spent all their free time walking the streets preaching, disappearing from meetings, and gradually became completely alienated from their families.
Jehovah's Witnesses find their own in any city
The husband of the newly minted Jehovah's Witness at first did not know what she was doing, and when Lyudmila admitted that she attended meetings of the Jehovah's Witness community, he was more or less loyal to his wife's hobby. Well, then, realizing that such a “hobby” would not lead to good, he began to make attempts to protect his wife from communicating with brothers in faith. It was precisely in order to tear the woman out of the circle of old acquaintances that the family moved to Omsk, but even there Lyudmila found fellow believers.
Eduard Kuznetsov in front of the house he now shares with his ex-wife
Now there’s nothing you can do to get your wife out of there. Perhaps I missed it; my wife boasts that she joined the sect five years before I found out about it, and successfully hid her trips to meetings. Most likely, this happened because flying work requires a lot of effort and time, and despite all these worries, I did not immediately notice changes in Lyudmila’s behavior,” says Eduard Sergeevich.
When Eduard Kuznetsov retired, he and his family moved to the village of Novosadovoye near Belgorod. Here it was also not difficult for his wife to find a community of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Sectarians began to periodically visit Eduard Kuznetsov’s house. His wife received dear guests, despite the dissatisfaction of her husband, who was irritated by the constant talk “about the true faith.” Jehovah's Witnesses began to come to their home more often than their closest relatives. No matter what was discussed in conversations with preachers, the conversation always returned to the need to join their organization.
Jehovah's Witness, who often visited us, said that I was not one of those people who could be persuaded. I flew myself and didn’t see anyone in the sky. I am an atheist and was a communist at one time,” says Eduard Sergeevich.
His wife also diligently insisted that Eduard Sergeevich repent and “accept God into his heart” and was indignant after his categorical refusals. She began to devote even less time to her husband, and how could it be otherwise, when twice a week she had to attend meetings, and the rest of the time wander around the courtyards and streets and invite passers-by to the so-called Kingdom Hall.
We've come to settle forever
As a result, unable to withstand the constant scandals, sidelong glances from his wife and pressure from her Jehovah’s guests imposing their beliefs on him, Eduard Sergeevich decided to get a divorce. But after the divorce, his life became completely unbearable.
I am being driven out of the house. The ex-wife is constantly arguing over the division of property, and her fellow believers are constantly milling about in the house. Most of the time I live in a rented apartment in Kharkov. One day I arrived home and saw one of the Jehovah’s Wife and his wife lying on the bed in the bedroom. The guest came out to meet me in his shorts and with an insolent look declared that he would not go anywhere and would live here. It was possible to drive out the “occupiers” only with the help of the police! - Eduard Sergeevich is indignant.
Grapes planted with your own hands
But the main thing that the elderly man is worried about is not the jointly acquired property, which they are now dividing through the court, but their beloved children and grandchildren, whom the Jehovah’s Witness grandmother recruited into the sect.
Now the only way out is to exchange the house and live separately. I won’t be able to save my wife, but I don’t know what to do with my children and grandchildren now,” says the clearly confused former pilot.
We have nothing to do with it!
Jehovah's Witnesses, in turn, claim that the collapse of the Kuznetsov family has nothing to do with their religious organization. A member of the steering committee for the management of the center of Jehovah's Witnesses of Russia, Yaroslav Sivulsky, said that the situation that happened in the Kuznetsov family is their family problems that are not related to religion, and in general the families of the members of their religious organization are very strong and happy.
Yes, he is right, families in which all relatives are sectarians rarely break up, since they have one common main interest in life. Plus, there is the fear of rejection,” says Father Nikolai, rector of the Church of St. Feodor from the city of Stary Oskol, author of a book about the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses. - If a sectarian husband leaves his wife, then other members of the sect will cease to maintain relations with him, and he remains completely alone, since sectarians communicate mainly only with their own. In the case when only one spouse is a member of the sect, they begin to put pressure on the other, forcing him to attend meetings. If he does not give in to persuasion, then the spouse who is in the sect begins to treat the “atheist” very coolly, considering him a lost sheep.
What to do?
If one of your loved ones has joined a sect, then there is no need to attack him with shouts and demands that he immediately stop going there or make fun of him and say that he is doing some kind of nonsense, - continues Father Nikolai - The point is that your loved one has experienced a certain experience of religious renewal, experienced feelings that he has never had before. The main mistake of relatives is that they start saying that this is all stupidity, nonsense, you are a zombie, stop talking about religion, your brain is in the wrong place. Like, go back to beer and football. And he responded, “My brains are in the right place, I discovered the truth.” Attempts to return a person to the world from which he ran away will be fruitless; he will only withdraw into himself, seeing that you do not want to understand him.
In these cases, you need to tell your loved one that it is great that he turned to faith and, for example, stopped drinking, smoking, and swearing. But at the same time, it is necessary to talk about the fact that this sect is known for very sad cases, and talk about the negative consequences of visiting such establishments. This must be done extremely calmly, without shouting and not looking at your loved one as if they were crazy. Do not insult under any circumstances by calling him a sectarian or using other offensive words. Start the conversation with the following words: “Perhaps you are mistaken? How can you entrust your soul to people and an organization about which you know almost nothing?”
As for the arguments specifically against Jehovah's Witnesses, here it is necessary to point out obvious inconsistencies in their teaching. Why, for example, do they claim that their teaching is the most correct? Christ lived 2000 years ago and at the same time his apostles created a church that still exists today, and Jehovah's Witnesses claim that their teaching is true, despite the fact that it was created at the end of the 19th century in America, but those apostles who learned the truth 2000 years ago from Christ himself they created the church, you see, they made a mistake.
Law alone will not help
On the territory of the Belgorod region, there is a law on missionary activity, according to which missionaries can talk with Belgorod residents on religious topics and invite them to meetings only “in religious buildings and in the territories associated with them and in dwellings with the permission of their inhabitants.” But preaching, for example, on the street or in a park must be previously agreed with the authorities. That is, before telling people about your religion, you need to submit an application to the administration and go out to preach only after this application is signed. Otherwise, the preacher faces a fine of five hundred to two thousand rubles.
In the first half of 2013 alone, we drew up 73 reports on representatives of various religious movements illegally preaching in the region,” says Belgorod police officer Valery Fedosov, senior commissioner of the group for countering religious extremism. - Therefore, sectarians are afraid to openly conduct their propaganda on the street. In other areas, it is impossible to prosecute someone for preaching on the streets, well, unless they distribute literature recognized as extremist. Therefore, residents of these regions need to submit a legislative initiative to regional legislative bodies and seek the adoption of a similar law.
The regional law on missionary activity, which allows law enforcement officers to at least somehow influence the “messengers of God,” has borne fruit - extremely intrusive preachers are becoming less and less common on the streets of Belgorod and the region. But it is not possible to completely get rid of the negative influence of sects.
There are several reasons for this. Firstly, there are a large number of totalitarian sects in neighboring states, where such organizations are more than loyal. Thus, in the eastern part of Russia there are “saviors of humanity” from Korea and Kazakhstan, and Ukrainian preachers are traveling to the southwest of our country. In Kharkov, neighboring Belgorod, there are several largest training centers for representatives of various religious organizations. Missionaries from American sects, raised on Ukrainian soil, come to us after a course of training and create legal and illegal sectarian communities in Russia. It is quite difficult for Belgorod law enforcement officers to deal with such an influx of foreign religious figures.
Tatiana Grigorieva
I am 44 years old, I have 2 children (1 year and 5.5 years old) and my husband left a month ago, leaving me without money, with utility debts (for which he has not paid for a year). The excuse for leaving is that he is tired of scandals and it will be better for the children. 4 years ago he became interested in esotericism, sat for hours in meditation and prayer, did not actually sleep at night, went to bed in the morning, stopped eating meat, grew his hair, put on a bunch of bracelets and pendants, supposedly for “protection”, began going to trainings where running on burning coals and glass. And he began to work and earn less and less, citing the crisis. A year ago I sold a practically new car, and within a few months there was no money. Now he insists on selling the apartment that I took out as a mortgage (but it was registered as joint ownership), and my parents helped pay off the loan ahead of schedule, and I, in his opinion, should go with the children 1000 km away to my parents. During the year, while I was on maternity leave, he bought only a minimum of products and gave me a couple of thousand a month, all other expenses were at my expense. Didn’t pay enough attention to me and the children, didn’t have any intimate life since pregnancy (allegedly, even when I sleep, I take away his energy if I made any complaints to him before going to bed), didn’t help around the house (a coincidence of circumstances, but part of the household appliances in the house broke down) appliances - vacuum cleaner, washing machine, refrigerator are leaking, taps are leaking, mice have appeared). And in such chaos, I was left alone with two small children, trying to work from home, my parents were far away. Tell me why I gave birth to a second one. It wasn’t all that depressing yet; I hoped that the birth of a second child would mobilize him, but it so happened that with the beginning of his pregnancy, his “Teacher” moved to Moscow from Altai, and he began to communicate with her much more often (nothing personal, I think, to the woman under 60 and she got married). By the way, he was always looking for himself, often changed jobs, went to trainings, but before the birth of his first child, he finally stayed at work, and 7 years after we started living together, we got married and finally decided to have a child. For a long time I behaved like an ostrich with its head in the sand (I saved myself by working until I went on maternity leave, and now a little work from home helps). My feelings for him have died, but I feel sorry for the children, although now he is no longer interested in them, he will come one weekend for a couple of hours, and for a week there is no hearing, no spirit, and no material support. I probably should fight for him for the sake of the children (well, at least in the future, so that he doesn’t lead them astray), because he’s practically in a sect, but I have neither the strength nor the desire. How does it all look from the outside?
Julia, Moscow, 44 years old / 05/24/17
Our experts' opinions
Alyona
Julia, from the outside it looks like you don’t need a women’s forum or reviews in the “Two Opinions” section, but a divorce lawyer. You need to think about how to recapture the apartment from the encroachments of your husband, who is quietly going crazy, had nothing to do with paying the mortgage, and is now a direct threat to you and the children, since he can do something with his share of the apartment at any time, although I would like to give it to the “Teacher”. In my opinion, you need to go and talk to a lawyer and find out all your weak points in the event of a real divorce. And at the same time figure out how to collect child support from him. As long as you are formally married, he doesn't owe you anything. And may not support children at all. Divorce and alimony will oblige him to both work and pay. As for the struggle for a husband for the sake of the children, I think that not every dad is needed by children. You yourself wrote “he’s practically in a sect,” so think about what will happen if the children continue to communicate with such a dad. But, I repeat, all these are questions for lawyers, and not for women’s circles.
Sergey
Julia, in my opinion, you should break up as soon as possible. However, first, without wasting time, contact a lawyer, explain the situation and start preparing for a divorce. Collect documents, evidence and everything they tell you to get the most out of the situation for yourself and your children. And no pity. You must take complete control of everything you can. Only then, if the desire arises, can you begin to sympathize with your ex-husband. As for the fight for the father for the sake of the children, this is complete nonsense. Your husband has already abandoned you, and quite deliberately. And if so, it means he doesn’t need either children or you, and in any case, he will never become a loving, caring dad. Well, what's the point of fighting for such a person? What can he teach? What can you give to kids if you only want to meditate and think about lofty things? Alas, living together with this person will only bring constant tension, a bunch of frayed nerves and lost finances. So gather your strength, consult with a lawyer and get a divorce before the apartment and children are lost to the sect along with the car.
But for an ordinary person (not very knowledgeable in philosophy, esotericism, and so on), such questions do not arise by themselves.
It seems to me that initially we need to find a thin place between his relationship with the sect and drive a wedge there. So that doubt arises in him. It is not at all necessary that this doubt be about Christ or Satan. Ordinary everyday situations are quite enough.
Examples (real examples): they talk about love, but they beat their wife. They talk about themselves as a big family, but a person ended up in the hospital and no one came. (In this situation, I wouldn’t poke it in my husband’s face, like, look, you forgot your friend. I would go with my husband to the hospital to see this man, ask in front of my husband if anyone is visiting him, and sympathize. Then with my husband in a confidential conversation, I would share my doubts, like how is it possible, no one visited a person in such a state. My husband would probably begin to find excuses for the sectarians. I wouldn’t argue, I would say that it would still be better to visit. I would achieve it his agreement that yes, it would be more correct and Christian. This would have hushed up the conversation. The grain, so to speak, was thrown into the ground.)
Their notorious refusals of blood transfusions. A very sore subject when talking with witnesses. It is stupid to prove at the level of facts, since their facts are all falsified, but ordinary witnesses are not doctors and scientists, and they do not understand what the falsification is. It is better not to touch this topic at all.
In general, you can’t argue with them. They believe what they say and do not hear anyone or anything. You can only act on the emotional level. It seems to me that it is important that a chill appears in relation to the sect.
After all, what are they looking for in a sect? Only a few seek absolute truth. And such units do not become naked sectarians, they are always loners, they came, they left. The rest, under the guise of the “authenticity” of the faith, are looking for families. They are looking for care, looking for like-minded people, looking for a group that would become family. Remember how teenagers are drawn to company and how important it is to them. It's the same thing here, in my opinion. And it is useless to admonish that the company is bad. It is necessary for a person to see: these are ALIENS, he is not safe there. When he feels inside that something is wrong, then you can carefully raise questions of faith and try to convince him. Yes, and then, very, very carefully.
Witnesses are brainwashed into thinking that everyone who is not with them is against them. Especially those who know about them and do not want to go to them and treat them badly. They treat those who show interest in them a little better, because they believe that there is still a chance to get this person. That’s why it seems to me so important that he does not perceive you as an enemy by faith. But as a sister, or at least a potential sister. I understand that your religion does not allow you to join a sect, then at least verbally pretend that you are interested. (as my father told me at the wedding: be cunning, a cunning wife always has a good husband:).) That you don’t deny that you are ready to listen and find out. At least then he won't close himself off from you.
I needed all the facts of falsifications, false promises, forgeries, illogicalities only when people began to go there less often and read less often. (their literature is a separate matter). When they needed proof why they would stop going there. That is, the decision was already ripe, but we needed evidence and justification for ourselves. In matters of faith and morals, facts decide little. Here emotions and feelings decide, the conclusion is made by the soul.
About literature. I would do it this way. They have a bunch of these magazines that they read. I would never hide them or scold them for them. Vice versa! I would allocate a large and good shelf or other place for them. BUT! Where it is not very convenient to get them from and where they are not in plain sight. For example, not in the bedroom, where it’s nice to lie down on the bed and read before going to bed, but high up on a shelf behind glass in the living room, where there is no place nearby where you can sit down with such a magazine. And all the literature that just appears in the house would immediately be placed there. I repeat, without a single negative comment. On the contrary, like, with respect. And I would vigilantly watch how much is read. In theory, it should be less readable if it is put away in such a place.
There are psychologists who work on sects. You can agree (I just don’t know how expensive it is for you and whether it’s legal) that such a psychologist will enter your house under some other pretext, not as a psychologist, but as a friend, for example. And he can influence the situation.
In short, everything is approximately in this vein.
Asuka is a program, we will be able to communicate with you even without a forum then. It’s not very convenient for the author of the topic that we are littering it here with thoughts that are not related to Scientologists.
Link www.icq.com There you can download and install it at home. If you can’t figure it out yourself, ask someone. This is a very popular thing and probably a lot of people can help you. And then you’ll find me by number and we’ll talk.
He was always interested in various esotericism, spiritual practices, teachings and philosophies. Some brochures about search and faith were scattered around the house, and phrases from esoteric audiobooks that were already familiar to her were playing in his headphones. Periodically, he disappeared at meetings of either seekers, or meditators, or some other people incomprehensible to her. She didn’t even tell her friends right away about his interests; she stuttered once and immediately received a puzzled look in response and a diagnosis: “He’s a real sectarian!”
“Why a sectarian right away? – she defended him mentally. “They showed a report on TV about these people, they are quite strange there, they give away apartments, they go to live in their sects. No, he's not like that."
When they met, he immediately told her: “My faith will always come first, and you will come second. Do you accept this? She nodded her head approvingly, because his hobbies seemed interesting and unusual: this is not some kind of football or fishing! He said that what he liked most about her was her quiet and soft voice. This also seemed unusual and mysterious to her.
He always talked so enthusiastically about some newly found idea that she herself involuntarily began to believe in his words. Sometimes for some reason it even became a little scary and creepy, but he spoke so confidently about the structure of the world, the matrix, God, illusions and other things that were not entirely clear to her, that she felt as if he knew and understood everything - and fear gave way to trust peace.
However, such inspiration never lasted long for him. After some time, he abandoned the idea he found, somehow closed himself off and disappeared whole nights online. In the morning he barely woke up for work, wandered absentmindedly around the apartment, trying to find his keys, his cigarettes, his phone. After he left, she found a cup of unfinished coffee and an open package of headache pills on the table. When she tried to take him somewhere to unwind, he said that he didn’t want anything and that it was a waste of time.
At such moments, she did not understand him at all: well, he was tired of yet another company of believers, so now – is life over? They even quarreled over it. She was indignant that he completely stopped paying attention to her, and he brushed it off that she didn’t understand anything and left in an unknown direction, taking his favorite headphones with him.
Misunderstanding
She began to seriously worry after he refused a new, higher-paying position. He explained his refusal by saying that he would have to devote too much time to work and would not have time left to engage in his spiritual practices. He didn't even think about her!
She had already forgotten the last time they spent time together. All her attempts to arrange a romantic dinner and impress her husband with new underwear failed: he either did not notice her at all, or started talking about the meaninglessness of life. She no longer found anything interesting in his conversations. He began to seem more and more alien and distant, she no longer knew whether he loved her. It seems like he’s sitting very close, but it’s as if he’s not here at all.
Recently he has changed a lot: he almost stopped eating, began to smoke more, and did not communicate with friends. He snapped back irritably at any attempts to talk. She even got into his computer and looked at what he was doing on the Internet at night. In her browsing history, she found dozens of different sites about the meaning of life, knowledge of the soul, and other, as it seemed to her, nonsense. She suffered from the lack of his attention and did not understand why he could not live normally. All this only caused anger, and the thought that her husband was really some kind of sectarian haunted her. Is there really no solution to this problem?
Who are the seekers?
No matter how hopeless this situation may seem, there is actually a way out. First you need to understand what pushes a person out of social life into various teachings, esotericism and sects. System-vector psychology of Yuri Burlan explains that everything we do depends on our desires, and identifies 8 groups of innate properties and desires - vectors. Each person is endowed with certain properties that set the direction of his entire life. Depending on this, we develop life values and various aspirations.
For some people it is important to build a career, for others it is important to have a strong family, for others it is important to find true love. There are also people for whom the most important thing is to understand the meaning of their life. This desire is due to their nature. System-vector psychology says that such a person has a sound vector.
A person with a sound vector is noticeably different from all others. Usually those around them note that such people are the least sociable; they prefer silence and loneliness to any noisy companies. They are a little absent-minded; it seems that, being in their thoughts, they do not notice anything around them. In fact, this is true.
The sound guy is an absolute introvert. Immersed in his thoughts and states, he does not show it at all on the outside. It may seem that he is simply looking at one point, as if he is sleeping with his eyes open. However, at this time, inside him there is a real boiling of experiences that are completely unrelated to the physical world. He is interested in the inner component of the human soul.
The article was written based on training materials “ System-vector psychology»
